More on Limbo…
From Pius XII:
“In the present economy there is no other way of communicating [sanctifying grace] to the child who has not yet the use of reason [other than Baptism]. But, nevertheless, the state of grace at the moment of death is absolutely necessary for salvation. Without it, it is not possible to attain supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God. An act of love can suffice [i.e., Baptism of Desire] for an adult to obtain sanctifying grace and supply for the absence of Baptism; for the unborn child or for the newly born, this way is not open….” –Pope Pius XII, Address to Midwives, Oct. 29, 1951
That’s interesting too.
(Go here for a rather long, yet interesting reflection upon the contemporary view of Limbo, which accords with the recent developments Benedict XVI has approved.)
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Here is even more….
Doctors and the Church and Limbo.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Pope Pius XII is on my Saints Meme! I finally finished!
Anyway, my memory is hazy, my knowledge is about nil, but I can’t find that quote in the Address to Midwives that I have.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Cathy - I took it from the website Novus Ordo Watch? - a sede sites - I should have linked, but I didn’t want to scandalize anyone. Here is the link: http://www.novusordowatch.org/archive2006-10.htm - tell me if it’s incorrect.
April 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Cathy, it’s there - it’s under the heading “Supernatural Life” within the body of the address. Here is the site with the full text:
http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3462
I promise to check my sources better in the future.
April 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Yes, all well and good. But again, we wouldn’t even NEED think about stuff like this if people would just realize that the doctrine of Original Sin is unjust and immoral. If God stopped Mary from “getting it” he could’ve stopped everyone from getting it. Why send a savior when you could just stop such a spiritual thing from happening in the first place? Dumb. You don’t kick someone in the teeth and then offer to drive them to the hospital like your some sort of hero. Don’t kick em in the first place.
April 22nd, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Born Again Pagan: Because God gave us free will to accept or reject Him. Our first parents had it and screwed up. The vessal of His Son had to be pure.
Thanks for the link, Terry!
April 22nd, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Born Again Pagan - Forgive me, but my dad used to beat us up and then drive us to the hospital emergency room to get all fixed up. Then we’d stop for a Dairy Queen or something. So, it works for me.
You see, **it happens, whether you believe or not. No one has to believe in anything - unless they seek salvation. Just don’t think about it if it bothers you.
Yep - that’s pretty much my philosophy. :)
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:20 am
If a man decides to be a benefactor
to a man and his wife by giving them a huge inheritance which they are in turn to share with their descendants- does he not have the right to lay down conditions for his plan? And if the man and wife screw up is the benefactor not free to leave them destitute? Likewise, is he not free, if he so chooses, to reestablish his intentions towards the couple and their descendants as he sees fit; regardless of how they might feel about it?
Terry,
Thanks for linking to my site. Really, you should have linked to the source of my reflections; Pontifications.
http://catholica.pontifications.net/?page_id=2025
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Born again Pagan: “If God stopped Mary from “getting it” he could’ve stopped everyone from getting it.”
He stopped Mary from, “getting it,” through her Son’s Precious Blood. Yes, He was not born in time yet, much less died, but she was redeemed by conformity to His Will, including His Sacrifice. So its not like Mary wasn’t redeemed similarly to the rest of us–she just “accepted” Christ earlier.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Obviously I don’t mean that her mind acquiesced–she was just one cell!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:08 pm
This is such a confusing issue. What of babies that die in miscarriage and abortion? Could they not be saved through the graces of the Church? Is it not possible that Jesus offers to their souls just prior to death the question “If you could be baptized would you?” These statements may seem naive (ok I admit it) but I cannot wrap my mind around unbaptized babies who have not committed any intentional sin would not be admitted to Heaven…
By the way Ray at Stella Borealis tagged me with your meme - thanks, its a very good one.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Divinelamp: It’s a very simple question…is it right to punish innocents for crimes they didn’t commit? It’s not like you’re claiming we got some mere external thing like funky green hair from Adam..no…people go to HELL for having only Original Sin on their soul and God let’s them go to Hell so where, tell me, at what point did he “re-establish His intentions” toward them?
TN: And you didn’t think your Dad was screwed up for doing that to you? It’s like the child who is molested but given candy to cover up the wound! wtf?
Hello folks. Ya’ll need to wake up and stop finding excuses for unjust, immoral doctrines that make God into a monster.
Divinelamp: Your argument supposes that Original Sin is true, it doesn’t prove that it is indeed true. Why? Because you have no proof for it other than to appeal to circular arguments involving the Bible and the Church which is based on the Bible and traditions from those within Christianity. In other words..not objective. Step outside of the box for once and look at it with objective eyes. Sheesh.
Love ya, TN! (:
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Hey, my sis had a good point. Say some generous person gives a large donation to Catholic Charities to feed 6 million kids. Then they find out that the head of the charity used the money for some scandalous reason. Should those kids go hungary because the generous person decides to take back their money? Sure they *could* do it but how does that make them look? Punishing innocents for something they had nothing to do with.