Dr. Alice von Hildebrand on Dawn Eden…
Well, Dr. von Hildebrand might have been talking about her.
A friend, who chose not to comment on my post regarding Dawn Eden sent me an email, with this excerpt from an article written by Dr. von Hildebrand in New Oxford Review earlier this year. (My apologies for the length of the article.)
The Moral Weight of Words.
“ …This leads me to a question which I shall raise, leaving the reader to decide what the better answer is. …. some are convinced that in order to reach young people, one must meet them where they are — that is, use their vocabulary, assume their tastes in music, ape their way of dressing and their mannerisms. They are convinced that this is the way to win over the youth, that this approach does not “scare” them, but makes them “feel at home” and builds bridges. Young people will feel “understood” and will trust the person who does not come to them to preach, to teach, to criticize. This approach is viewed as psychologically wise, and is supposed to open doors that will guarantee the success …
But there is another approach strongly recommended by Dom Chautard in his priceless book The Soul of the Apostolate, which, although written long ago, has, like all great things, kept its freshness and value. In this work, he relates how a priest — far from handsome — operated “miracles of grace” among the youth in Marseilles. He did not hesitate to appeal to what was best and deepest in them: their longing for God. With very mediocre means, working in very poor conditions, he had none of the modern “tools” that many people believe to be crucial to reach the youth. But he made them aware of their dignity as children of God — a dignity, alas, covered up by sin and a faulty religious education. He awakened in them the sense of the supernatural implanted in them at Baptism. What he disposed of was simple and little, but his love for the souls of the young was so ardent that he touched their hearts and addressed himself to their true self, to the image of God in their souls. He led them back to God and the Sacraments, and several of his young subjects became disciples themselves.
The choice of words in such work is crucial. When referring to her previous life — before she was converted to the beauty of chastity — a young woman appearing on television and addressing millions of viewers, kept saying, “when I was sexually active….” The question that I raise is: Will not her choice of very graphic words inevitably bring to the minds of the viewers images that the phrase “sexually active” triggers? Some words and phrases are unpleasantly suggestive — “sexually active” is definitely among them. How inappropriate to use the same words for animal activities, for sinful behavior, and for the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony. “Sexually active” carries no moral connotation whatsoever. We can suppose that she wished to communicate that she was “off track,” but she failed to do so for the plain reason that the words she chose are morally neutral. How much more powerful her message would have been had she said to millions of her listeners, “I was living in sin”; “I was offending God”; “I was threatening my eternal welfare”; or “I was desecrating a sphere that clearly belongs to God.” All of these clearly indicate a condemnation of an impure act and the understanding that the intimate sphere has a special relationship to God. …
…She meant well, and in spite of what I consider to be a serious flaw, I am sure that she helped many of her listeners. But the fact that someone who is now living in the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony can be so insensitive to these distinctions sheds light on the confusion that is darkening our moral perception.
Let me repeat: The phrase “sexually active” can be applied to the whole gamut of sexual experiences. It can refer to the coupling of animals, to legitimate marriage, and to sinful deeds. I personally would avoid using this phrase to refer to a Catholic marriage. The phrase “marital embrace” is so much more adequate, and has a note of tenderness and reverence noticeably absent in the other.
The words we use when referring to the intimate sphere are particularly revealing: They can express vulgar coarseness or tender respect. There is a four-letter word that is used only by those whose coarseness must make the angels weep; there are “scientific” words which, by the very nature of science, are neutral. (This is why we can go to a physician and speak about very intimate things in a fashion which is in no way offensive to purity.) For Christians — blessed by their belief in the Dogma of the Incarnation — the body has acquired a nobility that calls for an adequate expression. When the Angel Gabriel sent by God asked the sweet holy Virgin to become the mother of His Son, she did not reply, “How is this to be, I have never been sexually active.” Rather, she said, “I know not man.” One could give a whole university course on purity by meditating on these words. …” -NOR
(To my knowledge, Dr. von Hildebraand was NOT referring to Dawn Eden in this piece, but her essay is relevant nevertheless.)
- Commentary , Virtue , Weblogs
July 9th, 2007 at 10:19 am
I totally agree with Dr Hildebrand. I think that many of the so-called chastity programs are merely an excuse to talk about sex in mixed company. It’s “Catholic porn,” as my husband says.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Elena, you and I both posted about this article around the time it came out last February.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Wow, this is an excellent post and has helped me rethink how I discuss this topic. I never really considered it before. Thanks!
July 9th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Yes, I remember. But it is so good, it should posted every six months or so.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
It absolutely amazes me, Terry, how you find since interesting and relevant topics and post on them so well. There are a few other locals hereabouts doing the same thing.
Somedays I don’t feel like blogging because I have nothing to say that can compare with the thoughts that you are tossing out for us to consider.
Dawn Eden isn’t married so Alice von Hildebrand who is a scholar and an accomplished thinker and writer most certainly not writing about her.
But I agree that Eden does fit the description.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
One thing that I think (from my own experience) is that its more important and helpful to be able to let young people (teens especially) use their language, rather than use it back at them. One makes you rise in their esteem because they don’t have to work to talk to you about something that matters to them and you’ve obviously made an effort to understand them, the other makes you lower in their esteem because they see right through your attempt to ‘be one of the gang.’
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
And how many young teens does Dr. VH reach? How many books does she sell to them? Is that her market, or is she talking about something that might not be her field of expertise? She knows next to nothing about contemporary teens. She never had kids, doesn’t write for them and they don’t read her.
Quick test: She said “There is a four-letter word that is used…” and what word popped into your head? Right. So she’s guilty of the very same thing.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Young un - I’m fairly certain she reaches many of the people who teach and lead parish youth groups, as well as parents who are concerned about the effects of popular culture upon kids.
“Quick test: She said “There is a four-letter word that is used…” and what word popped into your head?”
“Dork” popped into my head - but then other words came to mind, two vulgar terms in reference to anatomy. That wasn’t her intent however, and you know that.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Young un: I’m 25, have taught 14 year olds for two years. I agree with what Dr. von Hildebrand said…with my limited expertise. I’m telling you, Dawn Eden would not convince my students she was cool. I don’t care how many great underground bands she’s hung out with…they don’t care about that, because she’s “old” and they don’t care about the intricate nature of the music market. They want rap, and the huge acts with staying power (U2, Greenday, et al that haven’t died yet). Furthermore, as soon as she started talking about her past, she’d cease to be able to speak with moral authority.
You can argue that she’s trying to reach 20 and 30 somethings in response, and I’ll respond that maybe she convinces some, but I find her to be kinda wishy washy. Then again, I’ve never been a fan of common motivational speakers and DIY/help yourself type writings.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Dr.von Hildebrand is an educator and has worked with young people her entire adult life. She has been on EWTN many times and so has reached thousands of people, many of them young, I am sure. She is an accomplished scholar whose writings, such “Letters to a Young Bride” are already considered to be Catholic classics. What’s more, she is a lady. It would be inappropriate to even attempt to draw a comparison between Dr. von Hildebrand and Dawn Eden.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Also, please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to say her work is worthless–if its helped one person than its worth it. I just don’t think all the praise is quite apropros.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Wow! Elena and nab came to the rescue - great comments!!! - I had to sanitize my response.
Thanks!
July 10th, 2007 at 3:53 am
This is an excellent post.
I am a relatively newly returned-to-the-Church Catholic (five years ago), and a friend who is slightly less new decided that we needed to present chastity ed to the local teens.
I was in favor of a “Dawn Eden” approach - lots of frank talk. My friend was not. I felt very strongly that my friend was wrong, and we were stalled on presenting our program because of our disagreement.
One day I started reading some material on the internet similar to this posting (it may have been Dr. VH’s article, which I have seen before), and it got me thinking and praying. I ended up coming to the same conclusion that you did, Terry.
In the end, I decided that I was not even called to present “chastity ed” in a classroom setting, partly because I really do tend to be too blunt and partly because parents ought to be presenting this instead of teachers.
Moreover, I was not qualified to teach parents to teach their children because I had not lived it myself. The most I could do was a “scared straight” type of presentation!
I am glad you posted this, because it clarifies a lot of what was going through our heads at the time. Those of us who have grown up in secular environments can’t even relate to what Dr. VH is talking about without great amounts of prayer and reflection.
July 10th, 2007 at 7:00 am
Terry,
Interesting points as always. But wait until you see the direction that Drew took this in his upcoming piece. I’ve seen his draft of it; it should be up sometime today. If nothing else, it shows the synergy present in stimulating ideas, no matter where they come from.
(Also, re Dawn, I’m sure you’re aware that she got an award from the Chesterton Society this year, and was a featured speaker at the conference over at St. Thomas. She’s also the new director of the Cardinal Newman Society’s Love and Responsibility program. If this was mentioned somewhere else in the body of your piece and I overlooked it, my apologies.)
July 10th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Mitchell - I’ll check out Drew’s post. I did know about Dawn Eden’s Chesterton award and her new job - which is why I did two posts on her. However, I didn’t mention these things in either post.
Drew writes drafts? I wonder if I should start doing that rather than just typing away on a post?
July 10th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
“I’m telling you, Dawn Eden would not convince my students she was cool. I don’t care how many great underground bands she’s hung out with…they don’t care about that, because she’s “old””
And so where does that leave Dr. VH?
No, Dr. VH reaches precious few young people, and she taught night school at Hunter College; not exactly the fountain of youth. She had a series on EWTN but so do the Everetts, both chastity speakers who sound a LOT like what Dr. VH was writing about. So what does that say about EWTN?
BTW, Dawn’s audience is not teens, but to 20 and 30s who have been-there-done-that. Her experiences give credibility; I understand her because I’ve been there. So have ALL of my friends, many of them way deeper into it than Dawn ever got. And that’s the norm these days, especially for us growing up in NYC. Do you know the one story from the VH’s life that gave them credibility to me? When DVH got his girlfriend pregnant. That, I understand. That’s a real curve ball that life threw him and I got to read about how he handled it. That’s very real to me and mirrors something of my own and my friends’ experiences.
Oh, and Terry Nelson, do tell me why “Dork” was the first word you thought of. It has nothing to do with sexual activity, so that confuses me greatly. Her intent was to use a phrase as an example and that example makes 99.9% of us think…not of “dork”. So she used her words in exactly the same way she accuses others of doing so. But when she wants to make a point, it’s OK? I find it nearly impossible that anyone in 2007 thinks that the phrase “sexually active” is in any way, shape or form titillating. Believe me, once you have a porn/sex addiction, it’s bigger, raunchier “doses” that you need for titillation and even that “four-letter word that is used only by those whose coarseness must make the angels weep” doesn’t even come close.
To add to my points, I have heard all of the above mentioned speakers in person: Dr. VH, Dawn Eden and Jason Everett. Jason seems best suited for HS kids, Dawn for young adults and Dr. VH for those who already are far, far along on their re/conversion story. There’s a need for all three.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Mitchell’s notation on Miss Eden’s awards and new job bring my thoughts back to Terry’s original posting on “celebrity”, and on an issue I have been wrestling with in my mind for about two years.
The issue I have been wrestling with is, “are there any officially stated Catholic benchmarks or criteria that should be used for electing or placing someone in a leadership and/or and teaching position?”
I ask this because in my short time back in the faith and w/children now in Catholic schools, I have experienced a number of incidences that have made me wonder how certain individuals came to be selected for the post they held.
I have recently finished reading Miss Eden’s book and as of yesterday while visiting her website noted her new position to which Mitchell refers. CNS states this newly established department will promote a program that “seeks to reestablish chastity as the cornerstone of Catholic campus culture by proactively promoting Catholic values, such as those embodied in Pope John Paul II’s frequent exhortations on the “theology of the body” and Pope Benedict XVI’s recent encyclical Deus Caritas Est (God Is Love).”
As a mother and one a decade+ older than Miss Eden, I wonder if she the best candidate for the CNS post and if she is qualified given she is a very new convert? Does the latter area even matter for qualification purposes? The fact she is not a parent, does that matter?
A child of mine had a religious teacher at her Catholic school teach her class the “fact” about the Virgin Mary having children after the birth of Jesus. What qualified her in the administration’s mind that she was qualified to instruct on the Catholic religion? Because she was a fun teacher, the students related to her and/or she proved she was a baptized Catholic??
Clearly Miss Eden has a very likeable personality, and w/her growing celebrity status to be capitalized on, as well as, the “I’ve-been-there-done-that” testimony, perhaps these are all that is needed to qualify for the post. But I seriously wonder. As she has humbly reflected upon in some of her past blog postings, she is learning and growing in her faith and has asked for patience. Would it be better for her spiritual development, CNS and the Church for Catholics to be more patient and allow her time to mature in faith before flinging her into the limelight—even if she might want it? I cannot help but wonder; only time will tell—some people swear by the swimming teaching technique of throwing the young child in the water first. I couldn’t do this one.
But as a mom, would I place my high school children in one of her sessions? Probably not. After following her for a few years now and reading her first book, I do believe she has much to say to parents, pastors, and young adults in their twenties and thirties … but I do hope hers isn’t the only voice they will hear. Her book is very instructive on many levels.
Recently, an acquaintance shared w/me a YouTube video of a Jay Leno interview (not real) that included Clinton, O.J. and Michael Jackson. The last interview clip was w/Jackson and one section he describes his sleeping arrangements w/his sleep-over pals. After that clip, the viewer sees Jay Leno in the shower scrubbing himself clean. There is something about the “tell-all” and “no boundary” Jerry Springer/Oprah society we live in that makes one want to “scrub clean” at the end of the day. Dr. Hildebrand, I think touches on this issue and is putting out a call to stop, seek and express His beauty in the way we relate to each other, especially our children, who so disparately need to hear beauty expressed.
The CNS site further states: “Ms. Eden will, among other things, advise, train and provide support for students at Catholic colleges who are developing student clubs, lectures or other campus events in support of Catholic teaching on love and sexuality.” We are called to evangelize even while we are growing and maturing in faith, but is that the same as taking on a “leadership” role before experiencing apprenticeship?
No doubt the good Lord is calling her on a mission, but as someone from a generation that received very watered down Catholic teachings to very little teachings, and now doing double duty in teaching myself what I didn’t learn while instructing my children properly (hopefully), in the midst of cleaning up bad teachings such as the one stated above, I truly desire seasoned & prayerful & devote teachers. I so desire to have my children appreciate the beautiful and gentle expressions of wisdom found in letters written by Elisabeth Leseur, Conchita Cabrera de Armida, or Edith Stein and so many other blessed Catholics. Miss Eden has great commission before her, and as Terry stated earlier she will need our prayers. I pray for her success and hope she will have time and a desire to write on Planned Parenthood’s activities on which she is developing a bank of knowledge.
July 10th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Sorry Young-un, I was just being silly. Thanks for your comments - I did not intend to dismiss your views - you have added much to the discussion.
July 10th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Ach! That didn’t turn out at all! The link is actually here.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
PML, what excellent reflections. As St Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians, chapter 5:3,12: “But fornication…let it not so much as be named among you…For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.” St Paul lived in a very decadent time. He was dealing with people who were as promiscuous as many are today. Of course, young people and converts (and all of us, really) need guidance, but guidance tempered with modesty and prudence.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Well, thank you for that, Terry Nelson! It was very kind of you and I appreciate it. Us coming-back-from-the-edge-of-the-abyss types need a particular kind of approach and I really do believe that all those speakers/writers mentioned above are needed, at different times/places in one’s life. Sometimes desperately so.
July 10th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Young un: Just clarifying myself–they wouldn’t dismiss DVH for being old and acting it…they dismiss people who are what they consider old (starting at about 22) and try to speak to them in their language. The most favored teacher at our school is in her 60s, softspoken, modest, and the kindest woman you’ll ever meet. *She’s* what my students consider “cool.”
I’m not arguing your point that different people are needed…that’s why I made the comment that if one person is helped, that makes it worth it.
July 11th, 2007 at 10:30 am
The “chastity” movement will not go anywhere while there is division at every turn. Eden is an established voice (even in a short amount of time). Talk directly with her if there are problems in her presentation- otherwise, dare I suggest that blogs are becoming ‘Catholic gossip’?
As well, after all the commentary is said and done- we’re still left with teenagers and preteens engaging in activities that hurt their body and soul. If we don’t like the teachers that are out there (too stuffy! not stuffy enough!) then we really need to go out there ourselves and do a better job.
July 11th, 2007 at 11:23 am
EMA - What? A Catholic blogger cannot critique an author or her book - which she promotes and talks about every chance she gets? And discussing her well publicised intimate life is Catholic gossip? She’s told everyone the last time she masturbated.
Youth should be educated by their parents at an appropriate age - the audience Eden is writing for should know better - if not - perhaps the education system failed them. Eden may certainly reach the 20 - 35 year old set - more power to her. Nevertheless, the very recent cessation of promiscuous behavior certainly does not seem to me to automatically qualify someone to become a spokesperson for the chaste life, nor a Catholic leader in the field.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
“The ‘chastity’ movement will not go anywhere while there is division at every turn…” EMA
What is the “chastity movement”?
July 11th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Eden’s publicist promotes her book- and she says “yes” to speaking gigs, neither make her shamelessly self-promoting.
Youth are not educated by their parents at a certain age- and certainly not about masturbation. The education system? The education system’s sex ed programs are led by the influence of Planned Parenthood- an org. that practically makes fun of chastity and thinks that masturbation is a great way to de-stress.
Eden did not choose to be the spokesperson for the chaste life or a leader in the Catholicism. She was approached about writing a book, she wrote it, and low and behold people read and and relate to it. Her recent appointment in the Cardinal Newman Society program was offered to her. She did not call them up and say, “gee, can you give me a job?”
The chastity movement includes the pro-life/abstinence/Theology of the Body org.’s and groups that are popping up around the country.
There is division because some org.’s are not totally clear in their stance on contraception/condoms/ and masturbation. Furthermore many groups are forthright in their support of the aforementioned vices. This causes division. For example, a group may promote abstinence before marriage, but then not be opposed to contraception in marriage.
The result is a lot of people/organizations etc. that are promoting different notions of “purity.” There is a lacking in consistency to the overall message. Further division is when one group disagrees with terminology that is used by one group or another. (The pro-life movement is embarrassingly divided!)
I do think that anyone looking to promote a pure message is going to be susceptible to serious spiritual battle. Therefore, when there is dispute in regards to how a truly good message is presented we need to be compassionate in how we go about telling our peers that their presentation method may be flawed.
Anyway, I’m not trying to be antagonistic; I’ve met Eden on a few occasions and she is very down to earth. The success of her book is shocking to her. This was her first book- and it stands alone. There really is nothing out there like it and a lot of 20/30 somethings do need to know that there are people out there having similiar experiences.
July 11th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Elizabeth - you make very good points in your response and I don’t find you antagonistic at all. Thank you. Like I said - I’m sure she is doing some good for her target audience, as well as Catholic educators who may not be aware of the stuff Eden writes and speaks about. No doubt she has contributed a great deal through her witness.
Perhaps the Cardinal Newman people and other Catholic organizations are the ones lacking in discretion in her regard.
Self-promotion - nothing wrong with that - everyone has to earn a living. Eden is good at it however - and definitely goes beyond her publicist - but again - nothing wrong with that.
Having said that, there still remains much to be said as regards good parenting, authentic Catholic education and catechises, none of which Dawn Eden has any expertise in BTW. And yes, I know - she read Chesterton.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Just so y’all know, “dork” is indeed a naughty word.
It means “man-parts”, if ya get my drift, at least, it used to.