Within limits.
Sin has its limits too.
We know God set the limits for the sea, the earth’s atmosphere, and so on, but do we ever stop and think he has also set limits as far as sin and evil goes? The stories of the Old Testament verify that; for example the confusion of tongues at the tower of Babel, the destruction of the Cities of the Plain, the liberation of the Jews from slavery in Egypt, Israel sent into exile in Babylon, and so on. In all of these stories the sins of men cried to heaven for vengeance… The sins had reached their limit - until the scales tipped.
Obstinate sinners.
Just so, St. Alphonsus Liguori suggested that each man has a limit to how many mortal sins he may commit as well. I read this at Salve Regina blog wherein the author interpreted the saint as saying, God permits only a set number of mortal sins he will forgive before he chastises the soul - or abandons it all together. If I’m not mistaken, in Our Lady’s revelations at Akita, Japan, she urged people to amend their lives because a time would come when they are unable to amend or obtain forgiveness for their sins. That is a scary thought, especially if we are wont to commit a sin thinking we can always go to confession, or we are in the habit of justifying a sinful state in life - such as practising contraception, cohabiting without benefit of sacramental marriage, or even engaging in homosexual acts - no matter how regularized by monogamous fidelity.
Abandoned.
A friend sent me an article with a report by a British exorcist claiming perversion may lead to diabolic possession. In fact, there seems to be a basis for the priest’s claim in Paul’s letter to the Romans; “In consequence, God delivered them up in their lusts to unclean practices… He therefore delivered them up to disgraceful passions… and thus (they) received in their own persons the penalty for their perversity.” - Romans 1: 24-32
Disgraceful passions.
Fr Jeremy Davies, the diocesan exorcist for Westminster [England] since 1986, said that more and more people in Britain were becoming afflicted by evil spirits through “perversion”.
“Among the causes of homosexuality is a contagious demonic factor,” he said. “Even heterosexual promiscuity is a perversion; and intercourse, which belongs in the sanctuary of married love, can become a pathway not only for disease but also for evil spirits”.
“Some very unpleasant things must be mentioned because young people, especially, are vulnerable and we must do what we can to protect and warn them.” - Source
Justifying one’s sin as a gift from God.
I find this very interesting in light of another quote my friend handed on regarding this subject. She found it in a book on spiritual direction by Fr. Dubay, wherein he quotes Peter Kreeft- I know, a lot of quoter’s quoting quotes here!
Some individuals claim to be perfectly content with their hedonistic lifestyle. But this brave protestation, notes Catholic apologist and philosopher Peter Kreeft, “verges on culpable dishonesty, the sin against the Holy Spirit, and requires something more like exorcism than refutation… Even John Stuart Mill, one of the shallowest minds in the history of human thought, said that it was better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied.” - Seeking Spiritual Direction
So it is one thing to suggest a sinful or perverted life can lead to possession, while it is quite another to claim such sins are a gift from God, as the quote from Kreeft via Dubay hints at, and is perhaps more intellectually acceptable to people unwilling to believe in anything diabolic - whether it be possession or obsession.
Homosexuality is not a gift from God.
Taking all of these thoughts into consideration, anyone who reads me on a regular basis will not be surprised I’m connecting all of this to issues related to homosexuality. Especially the idea put forward by gay Christians that homosexuality is a gift from God. Quite the opposite I would say. In fact, as Roman’s suggests, it may be a punishment for sin. (Yes, I know what modern exegesis says to refute that idea.)
The result of fallen human nature.
As I understand the matter theologically, desire or concupiscence, albeit a direct result of the fall, is pretty much neutral territory - until it is entertained, cultivated, nurtured, and acted upon - in other words, willed. (Of course, the fall from grace was the original chastisement.) Thus, if illicit and sinful desires are habitually indulged, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to believe that God, wearied by a soul’s obstinate rejection of grace, risks being ”delivered up to unclean practices” - in other words, reprobate. However, I doubt there is a Catholic biblical scholar or moral theologian in the world who would confirm the idea that homosexual inclination alone is a sin - unless it is willed and acted upon.
You become what you do.
For instance, I can desire a million dollars in a woman’s handbag, but unless I harbor and nourish the thought, and then act on wresting the handbag from her, the only sin affecting the desires would be covetousness or greed - I would not actually be a thief unless I stole the money. Just so, the person who desires another man sexually, but doesn’t act upon it, is guilty of lust. (In Matthew 5: 28 our Lord affirms that impure thoughts and desires are in themselves sinful.) So - conversion first and foremost is about ending/changing behavior - coming out of homosexual behavior. Renouncing homosexual acts. Subsequently, the desires are disciplined and ordered through mortification, prayer, sacraments, and patient endurance - and more mortification. And then getting up when you fall and continuing to keep on trying. Holiness is in the struggle.
“Where sin abounds, grace super abounds!”
It seems to me likely that the prevalence of sin in a decadent society does indeed beget more sin, and therefore we might understand it as a punishment or chastisement from God. I don’t know for certain, and the Roman Catholic Church surely doesn’t interpret scripture in the same way Evangelicals or fundamentalists might on this subject. What I do know is what the Church declares on the issue of homosexuality, as well as what St. Paul says about a sinful culture; “Where sin abounds, grace super abounds”. Therefore, it’s not over until the fat girl sings - so anyone desiring to leave a sinful lifestyle, perverted or not - that desire in itself is God calling the soul to salvation - indeed, it is that desire the soul should act upon. As the Gospel summons: “Repent and believe!”
That said, if the soul obstinately persists in error and sin, the Lord, in justice, could deliver him up to sinful passions, which I suppose could lead to possession, as the British exorcist said. Please keep in mind I am not trying to be a biblical scholar or a theologian here, I’m simply reflecting upon man’s propensity for sin and its penalty.
Note:
However, the mercy of God is infinite, so as St. Benedict says, “Never despair of the mercy of God.” And of course the Divine Mercy devotion calls us to trust and have continual recourse to the Divine Mercy. Naturally, if the soul rejects God’s mercy, that is the ultimate unforgivable sin. Although we will never know who the unforgiven are - at least in this life.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Wow! There’s a keeper.
And get that flak jacket and helmet on.
Society is rather dependent on their hopes of a Loving and Merciful God forgiving all they have done.
I myself depend upon the Divine Mercy of Jesus Christ. But I know that I have to keep my part of the bargain. I must follow his Commandments and do what else He asks of me.
And I must ask His forgiveness in the confessional when I fail — which is quite regularly.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
“And I must ask His forgiveness in the confessional when I fail — which is quite regularly.”
Me too!
August 13th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
INCOMING!
Not to worry Terrance, my prayers are with you and I admire your courage and persistence in wrestling this demon.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:31 am
I love the way you think.
August 14th, 2008 at 8:05 am
An excellent post! I was glued to the computer screen on this one.
August 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
The sad part is what is happening to our children. I know we are called to “hate the sin but love the sinner”. And I do. But our childrens’ being exposed to homosexuallity as a norm has truly affected our kids. I have two daughters (ages 14 and 20). My oldest’s first boyfriend ended up being “Bi”. As a kid how many of us even knew what that was? More and more teens are experimenting with their sexuality and saying they are “Bi” when what they really are doing is experimenting with their hormones. I know there are people who really were born gay or bi (physiologically speaking. And I know it is a struggle for them.But I believe kids’ exposure to these ideas stimulate chemical production in the brain (at a time when chemical connections are still being made).Does this make sense?
August 14th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
With sins of the flesh, it’s also good to consider positive helps — somewhere along the road of conversion, friendship with others who are virtuous can be a great help. Loving the virtuous can lead to love of virtue.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Clayton - very good catch there. Especially when it concerns same sex friendship - men need good solid male friendship. I should reflect on that sometime.
Carla - I’m no expert of course, however when adolescents, pre-teens, or teens, are encouraged at such a young age to not only explore sexual curiosity and experiment, or even be encouraged to decide which way to go or what they like sexually, that is equal to child abuse as far as I’m concerned.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Terry … good post!
This past Tuesday was (sadly) my mother’s funeral. She did not pull out of the severe problems she was having with her pancreas. My mother, always a Lutheran, had pretty much fallen away from her church decades ago though, so her service was held in her granddaughter’s parish. When the pastor started to speak, the very first words out of his mouth were, “Why are you all sitting so far apart from one another? I can see this is a dysfunctional family.” After receiving several glaring/dirty looks, he corrected himself and said, “but we are all dysfunctional in some way, of course.” But his original comment, although unusual to hear at a funeral service, certainly was true, and the man who is my sister’s husband (on paper anyway) nodded and even smiled in agreement, while my sister’s live-in boyfriend for about a year now sat by my sister’s side. My sister selected (she pretty much controlled the entire funeral) her current husband AND her live-in boyfriend to be pallbearers (imagine that?!) while my husband of 24 years, who has remained faithful to me throughout, was not asked to take part in the funeral in any way.
Fortunately, my brother-in-law is a priest and has offered to lead a memorial Mass for my mother, where my husband will be able to speak and our children will be able to be heard as well. My mother may even be in attendance (in the form of ashes) if the church will allow it (and if my sister doesn’t get her way first and throw her in the Fox River as she did with my father, which, by the way, carries with it a $600 fine if caught).
I think sin, and the acceptance of the devil that rides along with it, causes mental imbalance, creating an atmosphere where one can no longer think selflessly. I will continue to pray for my “dysfunctional” family. In fact, I was thinking of getting t-shirts with a capital “D” on them for all of us as reminders.
St. Michael the Archangel, pray for us …
August 14th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
I’m so sorry about your mother. Prayers.
God bless.
August 14th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Terry, an excellent post. I have to believe there are many Catholics in a state of culpable dishonesty whether they themselves are the ones actively practising a sin which they feel their conscience does not condemn them for as we learn from scripture that those who condone such acts are themselves culpable; the blind leading the blind.
To not speak about these things is not love rather it is loves opposite. I’ve been having that discussion relating to other matters with someone who in spite of their love talk has been quite belligerent in pressing their point (removing scandalous posts later - surprising and sad). I maintain that love is not devoid of truth nor does it cloud truth in an effort to not cause offence. I was reading a passage by Cardinal Ratzinger that speaks about how being a truth bearer means suffering for that action. Jesus certainly suffered for doing the truth in love. As someone above said you’ve expressed truth so it’s time to put the armour on.
August 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Ratzinger also wrote in his pastoral on the care of homosexual persons:
We wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:37 am
I’m working on a short book on friendship and holiness, based on a paper I wrote in college. I wrote a brief section particularly on virtue as a source and fruit of friendship.
August 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
My husband walked into the hallway ,and this photo was frozen onto the screen while I was folding laundry . Boy did I get yelled at.
I said ,”read it”.It really is a Catholic blog. It’s not as trashy as it would appear.
I guess our kids were walking by the screen. Sorry,Sorry,Sorry…….
It’s a great article. I often think about this . I keep thinking that one day soon the very last baby will be aborted ,and the very last human will be birth controlled out of existence, and God will say “enough”. Not even to mention All of the other sins combined.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Oops! Belinda!
August 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am
My daughter asked me , “why are those people dressed like that?” I said it was because they were posessed by Satan ,and that’s who they serve. Then I asked her “Whom do you serve?”
She’s 9 but she gets it. Unlike these people who are pictured.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Belinda - you are such a good Mom. I do not wan to tell you what to do, however, it might be better to not assume another person is possessed. Nevertheless it might have been better it you explained to your daughter these people were in costume - why? You have no idea - they could be actors, insane, or possessed, but they are ridiculous and have nothing to do with Catholicism. It is very difficult to explain these things to children - although most will immediately recognize such people are not at all normal.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:23 am
True Terry, but I always go nuclear. I could stand to learn a little temperance. (a lot)
My husband calls me an extremest. This is another one of my many faults.
You know that “if it walks like a duck idea “, perhaps they are ducks.
I think that it is probably sinful to assume like you pointed out.
However a small person thinks simply . Say your prayers , go to confession, and always go to Mass so that this doesn’t happen to you . That was clear ,and she understood that ,even though she is small. I probably should have been worded it better. Yet I still believe what I said is probably true.
I am a good Mom , yet I screw up continually. I love them fiercely ,and they know it.
Do you care if I write on your blog? I feel so bad about going nuclear on you ,and your nice friends. I feel really, really bad about my behaviour.
I missed confession this week . My week isn’t going to be very good without it. I am starting out depressed. No confession, no joy……
God bless you. Mr. Terry , I always need good advise.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
I’ve been thinking about this post all weekend. It has me wondering… do you suggest that God’s mercy & forgiveness in then not infinite if we are each given a certain number of chances?
“Just so, St. Alphonsus Liguori suggested that each man has a limit to how many mortal sins he may commit as well. I read this at Salve Regina blog wherein the author interpreted the saint as saying, God permits only a set number of mortal sins he will forgive before he chastises the soul - or abandons it all together. If I’m not mistaken, in Our Lady’s revelations at Akita, Japan, she urged people to amend their lives because a time would come when they are unable to amend or obtain forgiveness for their sins.”
That sounds a bit like the predestination heresy.
I do believe forgiveness might not be attend if we are truly not repentant and keep repeating the same patterns of sin over & over again. But I am not so quick to believe that God’s love and forgiveness has limits.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Wow Kat - you got me there. I agree with what you say and I realized I expressed this whole thing rather badly.
I think what I’m really discussing or pointing to here is the ultimate sin against the Holy Spirit. I probably shouldn’t have quoted from Liguori since I did not read his actual text - altho I make clear the author (Salve) quotes another blog and what she postd was the author’s interpretation.
That said, we do have the example of how God dealt with the Egyptians and others in the old testament - his patience run out, chastising the people - likewise the Israelites in the desert. So I believe God will only allow evil to triumph for so long before in his providence and justice he chastises the soul (or place, city, or country) in accord with the punishment they deserve - and often in order to bring about their repentance and conversion.
Likewise, every sin brings its own chastisement and we are punished in and through the sins we commit, and as St. Paul says, “The wages of sin is death”. But you know all of that.
I agree with you however, the mercy of God is infinite, so as St. Benedict says, “Never despair of the mercy of God.” And of course the Divine Mercy devotion calls us to trust. Of course, if the soul rejects God’s mercy, that is the unforgiveable sin, isn’t it? And we will never know who the unpardoned are - at least in this life.
“Never despair of the mercy of God.”
I apologize that I wsn’t more clear on this - I need to be very careful how I write - thanks for pointing out the danger of the heresy of predestination.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081506.html
They just don’t foam at the mouth…..
Still I shouldn’t assume that they are..
August 18th, 2008 at 7:12 am
I think it bothered me bc the thought is scary as hell, literally. Sins that cry out for vengenance & Holy retribution are in abundance these days and history reveals God wrath when it comes to abominations. I’m no theologian, I only play one n the internet but this one thought provoking eye opening post… made obvious by the comments & the fact many are still thinking about 3 days later… and it could be argued either way. Since we’ll never really have all the answers we can all agree it’s better for our salvation to stay on the safe side.